Listed at $7450.

https://nashvillewatch.com/product/cartier-santos-dumont-black-lacquer-wssa046-2026/

Is this a good price for this watch? Looks like it’s in excellent condition and I’ve heard good things about the dealer.

What are you wearing?

I'm buying gifts for my family members to commemorate my father who recently passed as a final gift ceremony from him to present to each of us. To get this accomplished in time, I'm on a tight schedule.

My addiction has rubbed off on the wife and she wants this Cartier Pasha.

https://www.chrono24.com/cartier/pasha-de-cartier--id43624460.htm

I suppose I could make an offer and request polishing.

There's a couple in Japan for a lot less (5k) and probably in better condition than the one US example above.

Unfortunately I doubt I could get this sourced as a grail option quickly so I wonder what you think I should do. I would need it to arrive by maybe the Sept 9th.

Anyone have experience with the following sellers in Japan?

TIME GRACE GINZA

OKURA CO.,LTD

I’m looking for some help. I’m looking for a birth year watch 1974 and came across a 6263 that has all its links and in really good condition. The vid is $88k without box and papers. I need to verify the following but most of it checks out.

Case & Birth-Year Verification

• Serial Number: verify the first four digits of the serial number engraved between the lugs at 6 o'clock? (I am looking to confirm it falls cleanly into the 1974 production window).
• Engravings: Are you able to provide a clear, high-resolution photo of both the serial and reference number engravings between the lugs?
• Caseback: Does the interior of the caseback feature the stamped 6263 reference?

Dial & Component Condition

• Dial Originality: Is the "Sigma" dial completely original to this specific case, or is it a later service replacement? Are there any hidden surface scratches or blemishes not easily seen in the photos?
• Lume Integrity: Under UV/blacklight testing, are all of the tritium lume plots intact? Do the hands and dial plots react and fade uniformly under UV light?
• Bezel & Pushers: Are there any hairline cracks or micro-fractures in the black acrylic bezel insert? Are the screw-down pushers period-correct, or were they replaced during a later service?

Bracelet, Fit & Total Count

• Reference Numbers: What are the exact reference numbers stamped on the bracelet blades (e.g., 7835 or 78350) and the end links?
• Link Count & Wrist Fit: What is the exact total link count on the bracelet right now? My wrist size is 7.5 inches—will the bracelet accommodate this size as it sits, or is it currently missing links?
• Extra Links: If it is short, do you happen to have any authentic, period-correct 19mm links in your current inventory that could be added to complete the purchase?

Purchase, Warranty & Authentication

• Documentation: I note that the watch does not come with its original factory papers. Do you provide a formal, written Certificate of Authenticity from your firm guaranteeing the originality of the internal and external parts?
• Movement Service: When was the movement last serviced, what are the current time-grapher readings (amplitude/rate), and do you offer a mechanical warranty?

Is there anything else I should be asking? Also it’s vining from a chrono 24 dealer in Spain and has a 4.9 rating over 240 transactions

Hey,

I'm looking at an MB&F LM101, it's listed for ~$65k. Looks in very good condition and was serviced by MB&F earlier this year.

I've seen prices for these listed in 60s range all the way till MSRP for used ones at different dealers over the last couple of years.

Appreciate your insight on a good price for these.

I have a Zenith El Primero Rainbow flyback from 2000. I dropped it at Mayors to forward to Zenith for service. They recommended the standard service but also replacing the dial and hands, sapphire crystal, and case and bracelet refurbishment.

Are the dial and hand replacements because the tritium has expired (26 years old so lume is probably only 25% of original)? They look dated but is their any value to keeping the original dial and hands?

Thoughts on bezel replacement and case and bracelet refurbishment.

-There are no observed cracks of the sapphire but they may have observed chips on the edges.

-Also, because this has the steel bezel, I don't want to lose the chronometer readings.

If I move forward with all of their recommendations, then it will cost about $1,900 but I should have a newer looking Zenith.

Thanks for you time

Was only aquatinted with Panerai on the margins until Collective members started posting and boasting about their collections. Went down the rabbit hole and then spent time at the Miami boutique trying on six or seven references. Landed on three I liked, started searching and recalled the reco, "Do not buy new!"

Found my Luminor Due PAM01250 in near-new condition through Blue Ridge Watch Company in NC. Owner was a champ to work with and it arrived today. Man, I love it and get what all the hype is about! So thanks to fellow Collective members for all the posts. Fits perfectly at 42mm, looks even better!

I am about to go to Japan and will be on the hunt for some vintage Rolex’s. Any suggestions on locations? I am starting in Tokyo.

What if the most important name in Swiss watchmaking isn't the one printed on the dial?

The deeper I dive into independent watchmaking, the more I realize something...

As collectors, we spend thousands of hours studying brands. We learn their histories, memorize reference numbers, debate movements, chase discontinued models, and celebrate the names printed on the dial.

But here's the question that completely changed the way I look at modern watchmaking...

Who actually engineered the movement?

Not who sold it. Not whose logo appears on the dial. Who actually made the impossible...

...possible? That question sent me down another rabbit hole. And I ended up discovering two names that almost never get discussed together.

• Agenhor
• Concepto.

The more I researched them...

The more I started wondering...

Have we been giving credit to the wrong people all these years?

Two Different Philosophies

One company became legendary because collectors fell in love with one man.

The other quietly became one of the most capable movement manufacturers in Switzerland...

...yet most collectors couldn't tell you who founded it.

That fascinated me.

Agenhor — The Storyteller

Ask almost any seasoned collector about Agenhor...

and one name immediately comes to mind.

Jean-Marc Wiederrecht.

He didn't simply create movements.

He created experiences.

Time that pauses.

Chronographs that read differently.

Displays that make you smile before you even understand how they work.

Winning the first GPHG Best Watchmaker Prize and later the Gaïa Prize cemented his reputation, but more importantly, collectors began following the man almost as much as the brands that commissioned his work.

When people talk about Agenhor...

they're usually talking about Jean-Marc Wiederrecht.

Collector Note

FUN FACT: One of the reasons Jean-Marc Wiederrecht is considered one of the greatest movement designers of the modern era isn't simply because he creates complicated watches, it's because he challenges the way we experience time itself.

Whether through the architectural brilliance of the Harry Winston Opus 7 & Opus 9, the award-winning Fabergé Visionnaire DTZ, the whimsical journey of the Hermès Arceau Le Temps Voyageur, the technical ingenuity of the Arnold & Son True North, or the artistic elegance of the Fabergé Lady Compliquée Peacock, his work consistently blurs the line between engineering, storytelling, and mechanical art.

To me, that's what truly sets Agenhor apart. Their watches aren't designed to impress you with complexity alone, they're designed to make you stop, smile, and experience time in a completely different way

At that point, I found myself asking another question...

If Agenhor became legendary because collectors recognized Jean-Marc Wiederrecht's creativity and storytelling...

..who is playing that role today? Or perhaps an even better question...Is there another movement manufacture quietly doing extraordinary work... without receiving the same recognition?

That's when I discovered Concepto.

And honestly...

That completely changed the direction of my research.

Concepto — The Engineer

Founded in 2006 by Valérien Jaquet, Concepto didn't set out to become a famous watch brand. It set out to become something entirely different. An engineering partner.

And I think that's an important distinction. Unlike Agenhor, which built its reputation around poetic complications and emotional storytelling, Concepto quietly focused on solving some of the most difficult engineering challenges in modern watchmaking.

• Tourbillons.
• Minute Repeaters.
• Ultra-thin movements.
• Constant-force mechanisms.
• Grand complications.

Not for themselves...

But for some of the biggest names in the industry. Today, Concepto operates a nearly fully integrated manufacture in La Chaux-de-Fonds, employing approximately 180 people, producing around 30,000–40,000 movements annually, and working with more than 40 different brands.

That statistic honestly caught me off guard. Because I realized...

I've probably admired dozens of Concepto-powered watches over the years... without ever knowing who was behind them.

Concepto Hall of Fame

This is where things became really interesting. The more I dug into Concepto's résumé...

The more familiar the watches became. I already knew many of these pieces.

I simply didn't know who had engineered them.

That's what completely caught me off guard. For years, I admired many of these watches because of the brand on the dial. Now I found myself looking at them from an entirely different perspective. Instead of asking...

"Who made the watch?"

I started asking...

"Who actually solved the engineering problem?"

And that's where Concepto's fingerprints started showing up everywhere.

Jacob & Co. Astronomia

This was probably the watch that surprised me the most. It's one thing to build a tourbillon. It's another thing to build an entire mechanical universe that rotates around the dial. A constantly rotating planetary display. A multi-axis tourbillon, A rotating Jacob-cut diamond. Every time I see the Astronomia, I'm reminded that this wasn't simply about making something complicated...

It was about proving that mechanical imagination still has no limits.

Bulgari Octo Finissimo Ultra

This is a completely different philosophy. Instead of adding complexity...

The challenge was removing everything that wasn't absolutely necessary. One of the thinnest mechanical watches ever created. Every fraction of a millimeter mattered, that's much easier to say than to actually engineer.

Concepto helped engineer one of the greatest achievements in modern ultra-thin watchmaking, contributing to a project that earned Bulgari the 2022 GPHG Audacity Prize.

That alone says a lot about the level they operate at

Louis Moinet Memoris

Most brands hide the chronograph underneath the dial. Louis Moinet decided to celebrate it. The entire chronograph mechanism sits proudly on the front of the watch, turning what is normally hidden into the centerpiece of the design. Mechanical engineering became visual art. Instead of hiding the movement... they made it the reason to buy the watch.

Rebellion

This one almost feels like Formula One engineering on the wrist.

• Aggressive.
• Industrial.
• Highly technical.
• Almost unapologetic in its design.

It's the kind of watch that doesn't care whether you like it or not. But that's exactly why I love that it exists. It reminds us that watchmaking doesn't always have to look traditional.

Ressence

If you've ever handled a Ressence, you already know... It doesn't feel like any other mechanical watch. The oil-filled display. The floating indication. The completely different way of reading time. Concepto helped bring those ideas into reality.

Sometimes the greatest engineering isn't adding another complication...

It's making time easier to read in an entirely new way.

Bugatti Tourbillon

This one completely blew my mind. Concepto didn't stop at wristwatches. They helped engineer the instrument cluster for the new Bugatti Tourbillon hypercar. That means the same people capable of building minute repeaters and tourbillons are now solving engineering challenges inside one of the most advanced automobiles ever produced.

That's pretty remarkable.

Collector Note

FUN FACT: One of the things that impressed me most about Concepto is its versatility.

Unlike many specialist manufactures that become known for one signature complication, Concepto seems comfortable moving between completely different worlds. One day they're helping engineer an ultra-thin record holder for Bulgari.

The next they're building a rotating mechanical sculpture for Jacob & Co.

Then they're developing movements for independent brands like Louis Moinet or Ressence...

And now they're even contributing to the instrument cluster of a Bugatti hypercar.

To me, that speaks volumes about the depth of engineering talent inside the company.

So why isn't Concepto a household name?

This is the question I kept coming back to.

Maybe... it's not about engineering.

Maybe... it's about recognition.

Agenhor gave collectors a legendary watchmaker.

• A name.
• A face.
• A story.

Concepto quietly built a reputation around solving impossible mechanical problems... Often without anyone realizing they were behind them. And maybe that's why one company became part of the conversation...

...while the other became part of the movement.

A Thought That Stayed With Me

The more I compared the two companies... The less I felt like I was comparing competitors.

I was looking at two completely different philosophies of watchmaking. One creates emotional complications that make us smile.

The other quietly solves mechanical problems that most of us never even realize exist. Neither approach is better. They're simply different. And honestly... I think modern watchmaking needs both.

Two Different Ways of Looking at Modern Watchmaking

The Agenhor Argument

"Agenhor became legendary because it had Jean-Marc Wiederrecht, a master watchmaker whose name became as important as the brands he collaborated with. The movements tell stories, evoke emotion, and collectors recognize the man behind the magic."

The Concepto Argument

"Concepto may actually be one of the most capable movement manufacturers in Switzerland today, quietly engineering some of the industry's most ambitious projects. Maybe history simply hasn't caught up with them yet."

Final Thoughts

The deeper I went into this rabbit hole...

The more I realized this discussion isn't really about Agenhor...

Or Concepto...

Maybe it's about us.

As collectors.

Maybe we've spent decades giving credit to the wrong names

Instead of asking...

"Who made the watch?"

Maybe we should start asking...

"Who actually engineered the impossible?"

Twenty years from now... When collectors talk about the great independent movement manufacturers of our generation...

Will Concepto be mentioned alongside THA, Frédéric Piguet, Lemania, Chronode, Vaucher, and Agenhor?

Or...

Will it always remain the invisible engineer behind someone else's success?

I'd genuinely love to hear what everyone thinks.

I like this 116233, 2009 two-tone NOS and am interested in making an offer. What is a fair market offer? "New," full set, in USA. To compare, I find similar "very good" models with the "President" hidden clasp in the "asking" $10-$12k range. This one is NOS and the "President" hidden clasp both add maybe $2k? Thanks!

Do you guys know anything about https://www.1mtwatches.com/pages/about-us

LMK if any reservations.

Thanks.

Used Rose gold perpetual calendar with fly back. 2 year warranty. Naked. $25,000. Is it a good deal? Thanks!

What is everyone wearing?

Question is this a good buy?

A Bremont S300 watch only good condition Comps are $1750-$2200

My price $1350 landed

Only issue seems like this watch is not as liquid or high demand.

Thanks in advanced

Curious as to the opinions on price. Watch comes with box and papers, one strap only. Reputable dealer, returnable. I suspect there is a bit of room for negotiation.

Thanks!

I've noticed something over the years: no matter where a collector ends up, Rolex, Patek, independents, vintage, or high horology, a surprising number of us seem to have owned a Panerai at some point.

It got me wondering...

What percentage of FTWC members currently own a Panerai, or have owned one in the past?

Why do you think Panerai has become almost a rite of passage for so many collectors?

What do you think draws collectors in?

• Military heritage?
• Iconic design?
• Endless strap combinations?
• The Paneristi community?
• Entry Level pricing?
• Or is it simply one of those brands that almost every collector experiences at some point?

Paneristi Check-In!

Let's make this fun...

Post your Panerai wrist shot!

Current owners, former owners, or even an old favorite you've since sold, everyone's welcome.

I'm curious to see just how many Panerai have passed through FTWC over the years.

I have a feeling the percentage is much higher than we think. Let's find out.

Hi All,

Quick question. As a watch dealer and watch repair facility we have a ton of watches in the safe, this goes without saying... Occasionally (more often than not) our watchmaker gets overwhelmed and some of the watches we buy that need a little love sit the safe for months if not years.

Watches that need service, need parts, may need a strap or have broken bracelets. Watches that can definitely be repaired but that we either do not have the time to source parts or there are other priorities we have to work on. We have over 30 of these project watches...

Watch dealers usually sell these to other dealers "as-is" (while explaining what it needs) for very low prices just to get their money out of a project they have no time to complete...

Would you guys be interested if I posted some of these in the marketplace? Or would you prefer to just only keep it to the normal fare? I would rather pass the deals along here than dump to another dealer, but if you guys think it is a bad idea then I will obviously refrain from doing so.

Traded 2 watches and $13k cash for two watches. Dealers need to make a profit…but it stung a little. Let me know how I did.

Traded away:2025 Gold Skydweller on Oyster flex - green dial. 2015 rose gold Daytona on leather straps with chocolate dial.

received: 2023 full rose gold day date with olive green dial, and full gold 1979 GMT with brown dial and red bezel (model 1675).

I really wanted to get more into full gold watches versus the oyster flex and leather straps. In my mind the dealers made a little bit of profit and I slightly upgraded. Open to feedback. I’m happy with the watches I’m getting….which is the point I suppose

pictures below

The deeper I dive into Collection Privée Cartier Paris (CPCP), the more I wonder if this was one of the most overlooked chapters in modern watchmaking. The more I research Cartier, the more I realize I had completely underestimated what they accomplished during the CPCP era.

For anyone who isn't familiar with it, CPCP stands for Collection Privée Cartier Paris.

Produced between 1998 and 2008, this wasn't just another Cartier collection, it was Cartier's return to its roots.

Instead of focusing on mass production, Cartier brought back many of its most iconic historical designs and paired them with beautifully finished mechanical movements. Produced in relatively small numbers and almost exclusively in precious metals, these watches were created for collectors who appreciated traditional watchmaking, timeless design, and exceptional craftsmanship.

What really caught my attention is that Cartier wasn't trying to reinvent itself. They were reminding the world what had made the brand legendary in the first place. Then I came across a name that kept showing up during my research...

Carole Forestier-Kasapi

I honestly don't think she gets nearly enough recognition.

For anyone who may not know her, Carole is one of the most respected movement designers of the modern era. She grew up in a watchmaking family, trained in Switzerland, won the prestigious Abraham-Louis Breguet Prize, worked at Audemars Piguet Renaud & Papi, and joined Cartier in 2005.

While CPCP had already laid the foundation, Carole helped transform Cartier from an incredible design house into one of the most technically ambitious manufactures in Switzerland.

During her time leading Cartier's movement development, the brand introduced an impressive series of innovative calibers and high complications that changed the way many collectors viewed Cartier. In 2012, Cartier received the Grand Prix d'Horlogerie de Genève (GPHG) Aiguille d'Or, the industry's highest honor, for the Rotonde de Cartier Astrotourbillon, a milestone that reflected the technical direction of the manufacture during her tenure.

In 2016, she left Cartier to become Head of Movement Creation at TAG Heuer, where she continued developing manufacture movements and technical innovations.

To me, that's one of the biggest reasons Cartier deserves more recognition today. Most people still associate the brand with incredible case design, Roman numerals, and blue cabochons.

But behind the scenes, there were some incredibly talented people quietly pushing Cartier into territory that many enthusiasts never expected. The deeper I went into the CPCP rabbit hole, the more I realized these weren't just beautiful Cartier cases.

Then I started looking at what was inside.

That's when everything changed.

Cartier wasn't simply buying generic movements and dropping them into beautiful watches.

They were collaborating with some of the greatest names in Swiss watchmaking.

We're talking about THA (François-Paul Journe, Denis Flageollet, and Vianney Halter), Piaget, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Frédéric Piguet, and Renaud & Papi.

When I started recognizing those names, I had one thought...

Wait a minute...this is serious watchmaking.

And that completely changed the way I looked at Cartier. Then I started noticing all the little details...

And that's when I realized these watches weren't expensive simply because they said Cartier on the dial. They were expensive because someone genuinely cared.

• Almost every CPCP model was crafted in yellow gold, rose gold, white gold, or platinum.

• The guilloché dials weren't there just for decoration—they had incredible depth and reflected light beautifully from every angle.

• Many featured the "Cartier Paris" signature instead of simply "Cartier," a small detail that collectors actively look for today.

• Sapphire exhibition case backs allowed owners to admire the movement instead of hiding it behind a solid back.

• Production numbers were relatively small compared to Cartier's mainstream collections, making many references surprisingly difficult to find today.

The more I looked at these details, the more I realized this wasn't simply Cartier making expensive watches. It felt like Cartier quietly building a collection for people who genuinely appreciated traditional watchmaking.

Then I found something that completely changed my perspective.

Some CPCP references even carried the Geneva Seal (Poinçon de Genève).

Now, before anyone jumps on me...

I'm not saying every CPCP watch received the Geneva Seal, because they didn't.

But the fact that Cartier pursued that level of finishing on selected references completely changed the way I looked at the brand. For a company that many collectors still think of primarily as a jewelry house... That's a pretty remarkable statement.

At that point, I stopped asking myself whether CPCP was underrated.

I started asking myself whether Cartier had quietly created one of the most impressive modern collections that many of us, including myself, had simply overlooked.

And then one final thought kept coming back to me...

Sometimes I wonder... if these exact same watches had "Patek Philippe," "Vacheron Constantin," or "A. Lange & Söhne" on the dial instead of Cartier, would we be having a completely different conversation today?

I'm not saying they're better.

I'm simply wondering whether the Cartier name has caused many collectors to overlook one of the most fascinating chapters in modern watchmaking. I'm still learning, and I'm sure I've missed some incredible references along the way.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. What was the first CPCP watch that made you stop and look twice?

I like this 2009 two-tone and am interested in making an offer. What is a true and fair market price? Pre-owned, full sets, in USA, I am finding in the "asking" $10-$12k range. OK, NOS and "President" hidden clasp adds maybe $2? Thanks!